noreen
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I'm so scared.

topic posted Sun, December 23, 2007 - 5:20 PM by  Unsubscribed
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  • Re: I'm so scared.

    Mon, December 24, 2007 - 12:58 PM
    How about...tell us about yourself. Are you being facetious that you are scared, or does your sexuality frighten you? Your proclaiming fear at the outset says a lot about what's going on inside you.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: I'm so scared.

      Mon, December 24, 2007 - 1:31 PM
      I'm not being facetious, I really am afraid. My sexuality does frighten me. I have only now started to even relate to a male God. I have been attracted for so long to the female aspect of God, Radharani, and everything feminine but something in my life is missing. I am trying to save myself for Her, Radharani, but it is hard to be chaste and pure. I have fallen down from the standard so many times. I guess my coming here was a cry for help. I don't really know where to take shelter anymore.
      Of course I know WHO to take shelter of. Srimati Radharani, The Queen of Vrndavana, Lord Krishna's dearmost girlfriend who has her own millions of gopi girlfriends, maidservants, milkmaids, cowherd girls, sakhis and manjaris and all the rest. But I have been kicked out of Radha Tribe and now I am lost, with no way to find Her.
      O Srimati Radhika, You have the most beautiful lotus eyes, eyebrows like cupid's bow, cherry lips and golden nose ring. Gopi dots above your eyes, a jeweled crown made of rubies and diamonds, anklets on your feet and toe rings, beautiful ankles and lotus colored feet, as soft as lotus flowers, Your left hand is holding a basket of flowers for Krishna, and your right is offering a benediction to Your devotees. You have a beautiful gold necklace with rubies, and another longer one of genuine pearls. Your silk dress and blouse are gorgeous, and Your smile is sweeter than nectar. You wear a flower garland down to your knees, and a bonnet of flowers as well. Although I am not qualified to gaze at Your lotus face I cannot help it. I bow down to Your lotus feet with great awe and reverence. Seeing You, Lord Krishna pales in comparison. You are shapely and curvy in all the right places and You have slender limbs. I beg to become Your eternal maidservant so I can have the privelage of serving You forever. How beautiful You are!
      • Re: I'm so scared.

        Mon, December 24, 2007 - 2:09 PM
        Hmmm. Well I can certainly speak to you on your fears of sexuality and of God, as I am a Christian, I don't get at all the worship of Srimati Radharani. So ask away.
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          Re: I'm so scared.

          Tue, December 25, 2007 - 6:02 AM
          Ok, since it is Christmas. Isn't having sex with another woman a sin, and if it is, shouldn't we be afraid to do it? I'm not saying I ever have or ever wanted to, and I'm not saying I didn't either. I just want to know what you think. Because I am a very lusty woman.
          • Re: I'm so scared.

            Tue, December 25, 2007 - 11:01 AM
            Don't be so hard on the girl, people. She seems to be coming from a place of honest questioning. It's not an unusual question either. I too have struggled in this area, and have wished to discuss it with someone.

            CatholicKrishna, we're coming from different places being that you are, what? Catholic and Buddist? And I'm a Christian. Differing faiths, but each of our faiths are against woman-woman sexual relationships. I have to tell you, that this is an area that I don't have the answer to. All I call do is share with you what I think.

            On the one hand, I have had sexual relationships with women and I have thoroughly enjoyed them. I feel love equally for men and women, and women are better people all-around, in my opinion, and they are so much prettier with all their curves. I have been disappointed in men so much that I'm not really attracted to them much at all anymore, altho I still claim to be bi because for me, it's about the energy of the person if it clicks with me, and on rare occasion, a man will click with me. So I'm open to either.

            On the other hand, I was also raised that it is a sin. I read a website once that said that the Bible was mistranslated between the original Hebrew to Greek, that it's not condemned in the way we think it is. That there used to be homosexuality practiced in certain religions, and was used more in the sense of prostitution, and that is what was condemned. However, as a devout Christian, I believe the Word of God to be a living thing, and it confuses me also. How can a God of love condemn love? Was it misinterpreted? If so, it also says that lust is wrong so therefore, is it wrong only outside of a committed relationship?

            I don't know the answer to your questions. However, I feel that it is a thing worth studying and deciding for ourselves. It is something that one day I want to take the time to seriously study everything I can get my hands on to determine once and for all how I really feel about it. My best suggestion to you, is to do the same. Another thing I would really like to do, is setup a televised program where religious leaders and those who are for homosexuality to debate all the texts and reasonings so that all the wisdom of all the scholars can be publicly discussed. I think it would be very interesting and would help me to decide for myself.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: I'm so scared.

              Tue, December 25, 2007 - 2:41 PM
              Thank you Schirin. I'm surprised at the reaction of the other women in here. But I was responding to what you said. I guess I'm lost in my own little world, but I'm not the only one. There is a group called GALVA, which stands for Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association which has lesbian Hare Krishna's in it. Devotees of Krishna ban all sex, even among men and women, unless it is for having a child. So even married couples cannot have it. That makes it even harder for lusty people who aren't attracted to the opposite sex to try and get married. I like women for exactly the same reason you do. Only I'm not allowed to get married. Fortunately right now I'm not especially interested in any one person in particular so I can take a step back and try to look at my situation for a change without being entangled in all the feelings I usually have for someone when I'm in a relationship. Just a friendly relationship.
              The reason I joined this tribe was I was excited seeing it it looked so attractive. Schirin I have studied a little and I do want to say that you are lucky you like certain men. I don't and never will but if you can get married to one some day that would be the most religious thing to do.
              God made us like we are but we also have our own desires. In Krishna Consciousness and some Christians understand this too, there is the concept of karma and reincarnation and if someone is born a lesbian in this life there is no doubt that they cultivated the lesbian mentality in a past life. Probably the very last one.
              As for the rest of us, who don't like men, we can only pray to God to forgive us for our sins, and if you don't believe in Him then what's the problem? I have just started understanding God myself after a very long time and I still prefer to pray to my Mistress, in all sincerity. I love Her so much I can't even say Her name right now, although I think I probably did say it earlier in this thread. Srimati Radharani ki jaya!
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                Re: I'm so scared.

                Tue, December 25, 2007 - 2:43 PM
                I see Treesong has a crush on James Kirk. Maybe there is hope for you yet honey.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: I'm so scared.

                  Tue, December 25, 2007 - 2:44 PM
                  Eli looks more like the type that scares me, pure lesbian.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: I'm so scared.

                    Tue, December 25, 2007 - 2:56 PM
                    People's differences should not scare you, CatholicKrishna. If anything, it should open your mind that there are many different ways of being, and your way is not the only way. What you are afraid of is not others, it is yourself.
              • Re: I'm so scared.

                Tue, December 25, 2007 - 2:52 PM
                Hmmm. Our faiths are certainly very different. I know that even in the Bible, it says if you are single it is better to stay single, but if you can not control yourself than you should get married. The reason being, a single person can be wholely devoted to God and a married person has to be devoted to the other person also, so their devotion is divided.
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                  Re: I'm so scared.

                  Tue, December 25, 2007 - 4:32 PM
                  That's ok I just found a guru. Thanks for being so nice to me and I really do like the other two women in here, I was just making conversation. I try to like everybody.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: I'm so scared.

                    Tue, December 25, 2007 - 4:55 PM
                    What?
                    • Re: I'm so scared.

                      Tue, December 25, 2007 - 8:49 PM
                      I don't believe in sin. Hi everyone, I'm Daisy.
                      • Re: I'm so scared.

                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 8:29 AM
                        Hi Daisy. Even if you don't "believe in sin" sin still believes in you! Haha. In all seriousness, I like to define "sin" as that which keeps you from being the person you are meant to be: fear, lying, not accepting correction that is due, being hostile towards God...these are all sins because it will lead you down the wrong path and you may knock others off theirs.

                        "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
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                          Re: I'm so scared.

                          Wed, December 26, 2007 - 9:19 AM
                          So wait. Fear is a sin? Who exactly is it that gets to decide that anyway? Religions? Bollocks!
                          • Re: I'm so scared.

                            Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:25 AM
                            Fear is a feeling, it just IS, neither good or bad. I don't believe that God would make us the way we are, supposedly in his image, then condemn us for being who we are. That's a bunch of dogmatic hogwash. Humans made up these rules, not God. If I am gay then so is God. If I am a liar, then so is God. Check out this link:

                            www.godchannel.com/
                            • Re: I'm so scared.

                              Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:29 AM
                              Religion is a slippery slope........if you choose to believe in sin, or human reality as bad, then that is your choice. Just leave me out of it. Sin doesn't believe in me, it has no power over me. What I do is between me and my.........higher powers, for lack of a better word. I am human, with all the foibles and failings and creative abilities of a human. I don't need any religion to tell me I'm wrong for who I am. I have enough self hatred of my own without adding someone elses bullshit dogmatic beliefs to the pile.
                              • Re: I'm so scared.

                                Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:52 AM
                                Daisy, it's not about hatred. Does a parent hate their child when they restrict them for wrong behavior? No, it's about love, because they want for them to stay on the path of good for their life. In the same way, our God will restrict us through painful circumstances when we sin, for that is the way he teaches us, in love, to turn us around.
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                                  Re: I'm so scared.

                                  Wed, December 26, 2007 - 11:26 AM
                                  What? And by what? I mean, Give me a break with this religious junk. This a tribe for girls who like other girls to connect, not a religious forum. Take this conversation elsewhere. I didn't join this tribe to get preached at.
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                                    Re: I'm so scared.

                                    Wed, December 26, 2007 - 11:30 AM
                                    Daisy - I just realized you might think I direct this at you,but I don't. I actually totally agree with what you said and think we might have actually said some of the same things in a different way. I direct this to CatholicKrishna and Schirin.
                                  • Re: I'm so scared.

                                    Wed, December 26, 2007 - 3:32 PM
                                    Matters of religion are a normal part of life and is a question that arises in many minds when it relates to girl-girl relationships. Get over it.
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                                      Re: I'm so scared.

                                      Wed, December 26, 2007 - 5:11 PM
                                      Wow. I'm completely over it. Religion might a normal part of YOUR life but don't assume that it is of everyone's. If you think its a "sin" or even an issue whjen it comes to homosexual relationships, why are you a member of this tribe?
                                      • Re: I'm so scared.

                                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:53 PM
                                        <If you think its a "sin" or even an issue whjen it comes to homosexual relationships, why are you a member of this tribe?>

                                        Because I, like many people, have the attraction but it goes against how I was brought up and it is still a question in my mind. Is that ok with YOU? That I question it? I look at all possibilities in life and make up my own mind after considerable study. In the past, whenI was younger, I didn't question it, but having grown up and been through a lot these past years, now I question things more. C.K. has a right to question herself also, and to talk to those who can understand her hesitations.
                                    • Re: I'm so scared.

                                      Wed, December 26, 2007 - 5:11 PM
                                      The thing about religion is that everyone thinks they're right. It's for you and you alone. What you believe is between you and your god, and has nothing whatsoever to do with me or anyone else. What if I said my god told me in my sacred text that I should kill everyone and take their stuff? Does that make sense to you? Probably no more than the concept of sin does for me. So trying to argue this with me, or convince me of your point of view is pointless. Go sell it to someone desperate and gullible for someone to follow. It aint me.

                                      And Erin, I never thought you were addressing me. I want to talk about girl stuff, relationships, sex, whatever. I didn't come here for this religious crap, or as you say, to be preached at. Thank you for speaking up.

                                      Daisy
                                      • Re: I'm so scared.

                                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:50 PM
                                        Hi Daisy, no one invited you into the conversation. Last I thought, I was discussing this with C.K. and no one else. Everyone else started out very cross with her, and I could tell she was searching and asking honest questions, and wished to address her with open mindedness. Anyone who wishes to LEAVE the conversation, MAY. Bye bye!

                                        <What if I said my god told me in my sacred text that I should kill everyone and take their stuff? Does that make sense to you? >

                                        No, it doesn't make sense, because no one who is righteous would believe that they should follow a fool who says to kill everyone and take their stuff. No matter my differences in faith, the baseline of what I believe and what C.K. believes is that we are made to love one another.
                          • Re: I'm so scared.

                            Wed, December 26, 2007 - 11:30 PM
                            To explain, fear is a sin because the result of fear is sin...ever notice when you or others are afraid, they screw you over a lot, steal, lie, cheat...anything to make them feel better about themselves but who cares what that does to someone else's life. Fear is the result of having no faith in God. If you are walking in faith and not fear, you can accomplish more, you can learn to push past it to get somewhere better, it means believing that you are loved by your creator and you shouldn't have that feeling of constant "guilt" inside. The results of fear and guilt are ruined lives, girls who feel so badly about themselves that they lose themself in drugs, drinking, sex, hurting themselves...the end result of fear is always bad. Therefore, I choose to live in love, believing that I am loved, and wanting to learn not to live in fear.

                            Also, as I've chosen to go down this road of learning what faith and fearless living means, I found others who believe the same thing and who have accomplished much. It has also made me question my sexuality more. Actually I really am not much sexual at all anymore because I've seen too much in people, been hurt too much, seen the result of sin too much, it has really made me very sober in life to know that this is really how the majority of the world lives, in fear and persecution of others. It's really hard to find people at the level of having deep faith but still ok with girl-girl relationships, hard to find anyone who has seriously studied both sides and not just gone with their "gut reaction." It's tough to find yourself in that place (me), and tough for someone so sheltered in their faith (addressing C.K.) to be open minded also, but in a different way than the others who spoke up here.
                            • Re: I'm so scared.

                              Sat, January 5, 2008 - 2:49 PM
                              Piping up because I feel I need to.

                              Fear is NOT a sin because fear is an emotion and emotions are NOT sins. They are just that. Emotions. It is what you choose to do after you feel your emotions that can be construed (or not be construed) as a sin.

                              Sin is a construct rising out of fear-based relgions. Since there are billions of people on this planet that do not practice a fear-based religion, I think it is safe to say that sin is not a universal concept.

                              K. I'm done.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: I'm so scared.

                    Wed, December 26, 2007 - 8:25 AM
                    I'm not sure what you mean by, "that's ok I just found a guru?" Does that mean you no longer wish to discuss this?
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: I'm so scared.

                      Wed, December 26, 2007 - 5:25 PM
                      Hi Shirin, I'm back. No I was just so happy to have finally found someone who allowed relationships with Krishna as His maidservants that's all I could think about yesterday.
                      We are made in God's image. I just saw on EWTN Christmas that some children and women were saying they were made in God's image. God has both male and female images. Krishna is male, and Radhika is female.
                      Being scared is our conscience telling us something is wrong, like when we want to do something sinful. Then we become afraid because we don't want to be punished by God. I appreciate your thoughts very much Shirin and didn't come here to preach to anybody, just the opposite. I was attracted to this tribe in a completely unreligious way. Mundane, as we say in certain circles. And since I was at one point a Hare Krishna person and still believe in Krishna and Radharani I always talk this way. I'm sorry if it bothers anybody. It's like if a nun left her church she probably would still talk like a nun, think like one, try to hang out with other lesbian nuns, whatever.
                      The only thing that makes me sad is when a nun gives up faith in God because she wasn't given the proper instruction on how to give up sex, and that is why most Hare Krishna's leave. I think all of them. But very rarely do Hare Krishna's stop believing in God.
                      Eli, please don't be mad at Schirin, take out all your anger at me, I deserve it. I am the lowest, most sinful person on earth because even though I know better than to maintain my material attachments I still do. So I deserve to be punished very much.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: I'm so scared.

                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 5:43 PM
                        Daisy, hi, welcome to this tribe. Since you voiced your opinion I wish to give mine. Yes God is perfect, and has perfect feelings and emotions. So do all the residents in the spiritual realm. But those souls, like me, fallen from the spiritual realm to the material world, are in discordance with God. We don't wish to serve Him with love and devotion, even though He is beautiful. So we do things against His will.
                        The things we do against His will also go against the will of others. For example, if I want to be the richest person on earth I probably will have to exploit a lot of people to become that. Who wants to work hard their whole life just so I can become rich?
                        If everyone did everything for God there would be no wars, no famine, no problems. But that might not happen very soon. Because there are still people who say they would rather rule in hell than serve in Heaven.
                        Krishna is so beautiful! He is drop dead gorgeous! Even I am mesmerised by Him and I didn't even want to like Him, I prefered to serve Radharani, His girlfriend! Of course I still have feelings for Radharani. But now I am confused, I don't know Who I wish to serve eternally.
                        I just wanted to say that our consciousness generally is polluted in this material world. A scalpel can be used to save a life or if a murdered gets one in prison he might use it to take one. It is all a matter of consciousness. There is an absolute truth and the absolute is not subject to our interpretation or misinterpretation. But if somebody doesn't believe in that that's ok with me. Still I might pray for them if I knew about it and thought it would do any good.
                        Oh in case I didn't say it there are some pictures of Krishna at www.krishna.com , but I hate to say it most of the pictures nowadays don't do HIm justice. I hope I didn't offend anyone who painted them. It's just that it's hard to paint someone indescribably beautiful. Lord Krishna came to earth over five thousand years ago so ever since then devotees have been painting Him so we're not making this up, we do know what He looks like.
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: I'm so scared.

                          Wed, December 26, 2007 - 5:45 PM
                          I pray to Radharani that Eli will become Her maidservant.
                          • Re: I'm so scared.

                            Wed, December 26, 2007 - 8:28 PM
                            LOL! Seriously? Oops, I know I said "done", but seriously? You guys are cracking my ass up. Puh-leez.

                            I'm happy being me. My gods like me just fine the way I am. But I thank you for looking out for our sorry asses. LOL!
                      • Re: I'm so scared.

                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 10:59 PM
                        <I deserve it. I am the lowest, most sinful person on earth because even though I know better than to maintain my material attachments I still do. So I deserve to be punished very much. >

                        C.K. I respect that we have differing faiths but if your faith teaches you that you are so unforgiven and makes you feel so lowly as to request punishment because of, or from, a group of people who don't have a clue what faith means, I would have you question whether your faith isn't teaching you the wrong thing! You sound kind of brainwashed to me (sorry, but I say what I think and that's what you should expect in Tribe!). I believe that God loves us and forgives us when we ask for it, but that we are His children and can be made clean and righteous to stand before him, when we love Him and ask for forgiveness, despite our being born in state of sin. We certainly don't need to ask other people for it (unless we have wronged them somehow, but that is not the case here) nor "lay down" to be walked all over.
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: I'm so scared.

                          Thu, December 27, 2007 - 4:58 AM
                          Our process teaches that the highest state in the spiritual world is the lowest in the material world, since things become upside down here. The most exalted state is when we think ourselves to be the lowest. Lord Caitanya gave us this teaching and He is Krishna Himself in the mood of His favorite girlfriend Srimati Radharani.

                          I also know that humility is a concept in Christianity and other processes. One saint in particular thought herself far from the goal of becoming pure even though Mary Herself appeared to her when she was just a child, 14. She was so humble. Humility is a great quality.
                          • Re: I'm so scared.

                            Thu, December 27, 2007 - 10:20 AM
                            Oh, for sure I agree, even Jesus washed his disciples feet and when they protested, he did it anyway and said to them that they should do that for others (i.e. serving them in humility). But humility isn't saying, "beat me up, please, I'm a sinner!"
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                              Re: I'm so scared.

                              Thu, December 27, 2007 - 5:04 PM
                              I don't know anything about humility, but I do know that the gopis experience more happiness from serving Krishna the farther away from Him they are. Radharani loves Krishna, and She tells Him about new girls so He can enjoy them. The girls who are so far down the line from Krishna and Radharani are so overwhelmed with love that they fall on the ground and shed tears and laugh and have all kinds of ecstatic symptoms. They experience more happiness than Radharani Herself.

                              But everyone loves Radharani and wants to serve Her. Some are only happy when they can serve both Krishna and Radharani. And some love Krishna the best. I wanted to be Radharani's maidservant eternally but I became attracted to Krishna in a lustful way and now I don't know what is going to happen to me! I think She might kick me away as punishment! My only consolation is I know She likes to introduce new girls to Krishna and I still have a long way to go before I ever become Krishna's maidservant that's for certain. I know I will be Radharani's still for a long long time to come. I just hope I never ever lose Her.

                              O please Radharani keep me as Yours forever, Your mercy is all I am made of!
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: I'm so scared.

                                Thu, December 27, 2007 - 5:07 PM
                                I'm scared because I can't say I hate Krishna any longer like I used to. Because now I love Him too. What am I going to do? What is going to become of me? O Radhike help me please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
                                • Re: I'm so scared.

                                  Thu, December 27, 2007 - 9:46 PM
                                  I'm just curious about your beliefs, because I've never met someone with the faith that you do so I want to ask some questions. So let me get this straight...so you worship a man who lived 5,000 years ago, a woman who supposedly split off from this man and is therefore a figment of someone's imagination, and cows? Is that right? Sorry, I'm clueless about your faith. In my faith, we wouldn't do that because we worship the God that created man, and cows.

                                  "Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.?
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: I'm so scared.

                                    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 2:10 PM
                                    Oh Schirin it is the same belief system. We worship God. Nothing else. Not even cows. Cows are protected from being killed. Originally there was God, then He made us, man. He also made the residents of the spiritual sky, those who haven't fallen down. Radharani is His internal potency. Unfortunately Chrisitianity on earth doesn't tell you much about Her, but you do have Mary, the Mother of God, and She is a partial incarnation of Radharani. So imagine our Radharani as your Mary and that is about right.

                                    Krishna is not a man who walked 5,000 years ago. He came in His original form. Few people recognized Him as God. Even the residents of Vrndavana, those who are Krishna's mother and father, cowherd boyfriends, cowherd girls, trees, cows, peacocks, parrots, etc. don't think of Him as God. That would spoil the Vrndavana mood.

                                    Yes there are those who venerate God but an example is given of a judge. When the judge goes before the courtroom they call the judge "your honor". But when the judge goes to their house they have more intimate relations with their family members. It's the same with Krishna. Krishna means all attractive. And actually someone who REALIZES they have a relationship with Krishna as a gopi is eternally liberated. So I am not actually following the teachings of Krishna Consciousness. I do want to be a gopi, it's true. But first I am supposed to try for liberation and then realize my position. I have done things the wrong way. First I wanted to become a gopi and then I tried being a devotee.

                                    But I can't give Radharani up. I just can't do it. And I never want to. I honestly don't know how She feels about me. I think She loves me, but I don't know how long that will last.

                                    One last thing, there have been books written by "Christians" about Krishna and they never know what they are talking about. So don't read some so called "expert"s analysis of Krishna Consciousness. If you do you will only be understanding whatever misconceptions they had about it. There is a saying, "Milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effects.". People who don't know a thing about Krishna really shouldn't say anything about Him, including me. They will tell you in a second over at Radha Tribe that they know me over there and kicked me out because I don't worship Radharani the way devotees are supposed to. Still I love Her what can I do?
                                    • Re: I'm so scared.

                                      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 6:28 PM
                                      <Radharani is His internal potency.>

                                      His internal potency? What does that mean?

                                      <but you do have Mary, the Mother of God, and She is a partial incarnation of Radharani. So imagine our Radharani as your Mary and that is about right.>

                                      I kind of understand, but I don't believe in reincarnation, based on Hebrews 9:27: "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..." The full chapter is here: www.biblegateway.com/passage/

                                      <That would spoil the Vrndavana mood. >

                                      The what?

                                      <I do want to be a gopi, it's true. But first I am supposed to try for liberation and then realize my position.<

                                      Liberated from what?

                                      <But I can't give Radharani up. I just can't do it. And I never want to. I honestly don't know how She feels about me. I think She loves me, but I don't know how long that will last. >

                                      I believe in a God who IS love, who always loves me, whether or not I am doing the right thing or not. It's just that He loves me so much that he will chastise and correct me, through his Holy Spirit which He places inside me, in order to get me on the right path for my life by acting as a comforter, a guide, and a friend. The way we know that the Holy Spirit is there in us, is through the changes he is working in me to turn me away from doing the wrong things.

                                      <They will tell you in a second over at Radha Tribe that they know me over there and kicked me out because I don't worship Radharani the way devotees are supposed to.>

                                      I don't think that is a higher consciousness, to not respect that faith is a long road, and where you are on that road is not to be "punished" by kicking you out. I'm sure that hurt you a lot, and the fact that you don't live up to their standards should elicit compassion and love and desire to lift you higher, if they were in the right consciousness, not punishment and exclusion to push you down and away. If that's how they are, I think you should question whether or not their consciousness is in the right. I don't think so.

                                      <Still I love Her what can I do?>

                                      I think you shouldn't allow fallable people to dictate your expression of faith. It sounds to me that the people who kicked you out are in the wrong, not you.
                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: I'm so scared.

                                        Sat, December 29, 2007 - 6:56 AM
                                        Thanks Schirin I think the people who kicked me out were wrong too. But they are "second generation devotees" and they think they know better than everybody else, just because they were born Hare Krishna's. It is like a caste system that only they can understand.
                                        I'll try to take a little time to explain these questions that you had, I guess they require explanations. Krishna has an internal potency and an external potency. The external potency is the God we all think of, and the internal potency is what He is really made of, and that is Radharani's love. That is why I think Radharani is actually God, and She just allows Krishna to think He is. In any case, it means God has two powers, male and female.
                                        I like that Hebrews verse, it is one of my favorites, yes we are destined to die once and then the judgement. Then we die again and are judged again, and on and on. Jesus asked His disciples who do the people say I am? And they replied some say you are Isaih come back from the dead. And Jesus said John the Baptist was. Again in any case, whether these quotes mean what I think they do or not, there were earlier mentionings of reincarnation in the Bible but they were removed around 300 a d by an Emporer Justinian or someone.
                                        The Vrndavana mood is the mood of all the people in the highest abode, Krishna's planet in the spiritual sky. There all the creatures love Krishna, not as God, but as the most beautiful boy, playing on His flute, tending the cows and playing with His cowherd boyfriends. At night He sneaks out with the gopis and they all dance under the moonlight. Krishna expands Himself into as many forms as there are cowherd maidens, or Goddesses of Fortune, and each and every gopi thinks that Krishna is dancing with her alone. Krishna is more dear to all of them than their very lives. They are all liberated souls.
                                        Here in the material world we are all conditioned souls, in comparison to the liberated souls mentioned above. We have to become liberated from our material conditioning so we no longer identify with our material bodies and then we can go back to Godhead, Krishna's planet.
                                        Radharani does love me I tell you it is true, but I can't say how. Alright I'll tell you how I know, She told me so Herself, and She said Krishna loves me too. But I'm not supposed to say that.
                                        The devotees who kicked me out of their Tribe are only trying to uphold the highest Krishna Conscious standard in regards to me. They realize I am a disturbance wherever I go so they don't want me hanging around at Radha Tribe disturbing people's consciousnesses.
                                        Schirin if you could ever read the book KRSNA The Supreme Personality of Godhead it tells you all about Krishna's planet and the residents of Vrndavana. It also tells about the gopis and Radharani, and we are actually forbidden to even say Her name, that's how holy Her pastimes are. At least we can't chant it like a mantra in front of the altar in the temple. But we do say it all the time. Hare of the Hare Krishna mantra means Radharani. By chanting Hare Krishna Hare Rama we are constantly associating with Srimati Radharani and advanced devotees taste the pleasure of chanting Her holy names. Unfortunately I am not one of them. But I know some day I will be.
                                        • Re: I'm so scared.

                                          Sat, December 29, 2007 - 9:29 AM
                                          <Thanks Schirin I think the people who kicked me out were wrong too. But they are "second generation devotees" and they think they know better than everybody else, just because they were born Hare Krishna's. It is like a caste system that only they can understand.>

                                          Well anyone who exalts him or her self above others within the same faith because they feel they are more mature than another, while exhibiting signs of immaturity through exclusionary practices, is deluded.

                                          <I'll try to take a little time to explain these questions that you had, I guess they require explanations. Krishna has an internal potency and an external potency. The external potency is the God we all think of, and the internal potency is what He is really made of, and that is Radharani's love. That is why I think Radharani is actually God, and She just allows Krishna to think He is. In any case, it means God has two powers, male and female. >

                                          I feel that God is one being, who made both men and women to be reflections of Him and we receive either His more feminine characteristics or the more masculine, whether we are in a feminine body or a masculine body (and in some cases, those who have the masculine body have a feminine energy, or vice versa, which causes those beings to have confusion about who they are, which is a difficult journey).

                                          <I like that Hebrews verse, it is one of my favorites, yes we are destined to die once and then the judgement. Then we die again and are judged again, and on and on. Jesus asked His disciples who do the people say I am? And they replied some say you are Isaih come back from the dead. And Jesus said John the Baptist was.>

                                          Actually, darlin, this is not true. The conversation was thus:

                                          When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
                                          They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
                                          "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
                                          Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
                                          Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

                                          <Again in any case, whether these quotes mean what I think they do or not, there were earlier mentionings of reincarnation in the Bible but they were removed around 300 a d by an Emporer Justinian or someone. >

                                          I don't believe this...sounds like a rumor.

                                          <The Vrndavana mood is the mood of all the people in the highest abode, Krishna's planet in the spiritual sky. There all the creatures love Krishna, not as God, but as the most beautiful boy, playing on His flute, tending the cows and playing with His cowherd boyfriends. At night He sneaks out with the gopis and they all dance under the moonlight. Krishna expands Himself into as many forms as there are cowherd maidens, or Goddesses of Fortune, and each and every gopi thinks that Krishna is dancing with her alone.>

                                          Sounds like a fairy tale. IMO there is no evidence that this is so, aside from stories made up and passed down from generation to generation.

                                          <Krishna is more dear to all of them than their very lives. They are all liberated souls.
                                          Here in the material world we are all conditioned souls, in comparison to the liberated souls mentioned above. We have to become liberated from our material conditioning so we no longer identify with our material bodies and then we can go back to Godhead, Krishna's planet. >

                                          Being aware of our human conditioning and spiritual self in this lifetime is something you and I can agree on is important.

                                          <Radharani does love me I tell you it is true, but I can't say how. Alright I'll tell you how I know, She told me so Herself, and She said Krishna loves me too. But I'm not supposed to say that. >

                                          That's strange to me, that you're not supposed to say that "God" (I guess the word Krishna here is exchangable?) loves you? He loves everyone, even those who have done considerable wrongs, only He won't necessarily bless everyone because He can choose to ignore them if they aren't seeking Him: "If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable."

                                          <he devotees who kicked me out of their Tribe are only trying to uphold the highest Krishna Conscious standard in regards to me. They realize I am a disturbance wherever I go so they don't want me hanging around at Radha Tribe disturbing people's consciousnesses. >

                                          I think that's why I wanted to talk to you. I am often accused and chastised for disturbing people's consciousness. Perhaps that's why I felt a kinship with you, despite our differing belief systems. That, and we both prefer women! :-)

                                          This is strange...I had a dream last night about people I never ever think about, from high school, which ended 15 years ago. There was a boy I knew then who was doing something where he was filming this wall of vines. He made it appear that they were growing faster from the wall through time lapse photography, only I was seeing it as if they were really growing that fast. I then had to help him, give him a leg up into some rocks. The next thing I knew, I had a girl that I knew in high school, who I never had a thing for at all, so that's what is weird, she was in my arms naked and I was just laying next to/behind her holding her and we were talking to this other girl from high school who was her friend. The girl I was holding was fine with it until the other girl frowned on her, on what we were doing, so she got up and left and didn't look back. This has happened to me in real life before, where someone was ok with their bisexuality until someone else they knew frowned upon it and then they shunned me. I don't know if this dream had any significance or was just a dream.

                                          <Schirin if you could ever read the book KRSNA The Supreme Personality of Godhead it tells you all about Krishna's planet and the residents of Vrndavana. It also tells about the gopis and Radharani, and we are actually forbidden to even say Her name, that's how holy Her pastimes are. At least we can't chant it like a mantra in front of the altar in the temple. But we do say it all the time. Hare of the Hare Krishna mantra means Radharani. By chanting Hare Krishna Hare Rama we are constantly associating with Srimati Radharani and advanced devotees taste the pleasure of chanting Her holy names. Unfortunately I am not one of them. But I know some day I will be. >

                                          I don't know, C.K. This seems like idol worship to me. Maybe I don't get it still.
                                          • Unsu...
                                             

                                            Re: I'm so scared.

                                            Sat, December 29, 2007 - 1:53 PM
                                            Ok you are forcing me to look up the internal and external energies. Hold on a minute while I do it.

                                            I can't find it, I am not a very scholarly person. All I could find is a chapter on conjugal love. Krishna is the source of all things, so love is present in Him. I can quote one "pastime".

                                            After He had stolen some curd from the pots of two gopis, Krsna told on of His gopi friends: "My dear beautiful friend, I can take oath that I have not stolen even a drop of curd from your pot! But still, your friend, Radharani, is very shamelessly smelling the flavor of My mouth. Kindly forbid Her from this devious policy of putting Her face near Mine." When Krsna was speaking like this, the friends of Radharani could not check their laughter. This is an instance of ecstasy in conjugal love.

                                            I cannot allow myself to say any more about Radharani in an assembly of non devotees. And I didn't mean God doesn't love me, I meant I am not allowed to say I remember Radharani speaking to me. I don't think that is allowed.

                                            I aplogize to the members of this tribe for taking up so much space talking about things they might not be interested in. I'm no longer afraid to be here, since Schirin has kept my consciousness on a higher level than I expected it to be here, and I'm not going to compare apples to oranges with you Schirin. Because both are fruits.

                                            If you are highly religious and are satisfied with the way you understand God I am very happy for you. As for myself I am not religious at all, and like I said I am the most sinful and fallen person. There is no hope for me. But I invite you to go to www.krishna.com and look over that website and if you have any doubts about anything you can ask the devotees there for an answer to your questions. Otherwise I feel like I am just "preaching" in here now. And hardly anyone wants to hear from me. It was nice getting to know you Schirin and if you wish to continue our conversation just send me a message anytime.

                                            Speaking of darlings, Krishna has a name, I believe it is Jasoda nandana, which means the darling of Mother Jasoda, His mother in Vrndavana. Vrndavana is the way things really are in the spiritual world. What do you think they do, eat meat, drink beer and watch tv up there? Plus smoke cigarettes and marijuana, snort heroin and watch porn? Krishna is real. His pastimes are real. His activities, paraphernalia, friends, relatives, the whole spiritual world is real, and there is even a Vrndavna in India that we can go to and become Krishna Conscious. One who dies in the state of being in Vrndavana is already in the spiritual world, and when they die they are painlessly transported to the real Vrndavana in the spiritual sky.
                                            • Re: I'm so scared.

                                              Sat, December 29, 2007 - 2:16 PM
                                              <I cannot allow myself to say any more about Radharani in an assembly of non devotees. And I didn't mean God doesn't love me, I meant I am not allowed to say I remember Radharani speaking to me. I don't think that is allowed. >

                                              Hmmm. Ok, but it seems odd to me that you're "not allowed" to discuss your beliefs.

                                              <I aplogize to the members of this tribe for taking up so much space talking about things they might not be interested in.>

                                              Oh, who cares. They don't have to participate in the discussion if they don't want to, and it is interesting to see what the differing faiths believe. Maybe it will be enlightening for them.

                                              <I'm no longer afraid to be here, since Schirin has kept my consciousness on a higher level than I expected it to be here, and I'm not going to compare apples to oranges with you Schirin. Because both are fruits. >

                                              Well, you shouldn't be afraid of other women--no matter if they have the same faith or not--and if I made you feel not afraid to have female friends, than that's great. I think we should all be open to accepting and loving one another, despite our differences.

                                              <If you are highly religious and are satisfied with the way you understand God I am very happy for you. As for myself I am not religious at all, and like I said I am the most sinful and fallen person. There is no hope for me.>

                                              We are all sinners and fall short of perfection. You shouldn't put yourself down so much. And there is definitely hope for you, and for everyone on this planet. Don't believe that there isn't! It bothers me that you put yourself down so much.

                                              <But I invite you to go to www.krishna.com and look over that website and if you have any doubts about anything you can ask the devotees there for an answer to your questions. Otherwise I feel like I am just "preaching" in here now. And hardly anyone wants to hear from me. >

                                              I want to hear from you, because I find you interesting. No, it's not preaching. It was just opening up what our beliefs are, and I found it good to learn where we are the same, and where we are different. I hope you did too.

                                              <Vrndavana is the way things really are in the spiritual world. What do you think they do, eat meat, drink beer and watch tv up there? Plus smoke cigarettes and marijuana, snort heroin and watch porn? Krishna is real. His pastimes are real. His activities, paraphernalia, friends, relatives, the whole spiritual world is real, and there is even a Vrndavna in India that we can go to and become Krishna Conscious. One who dies in the state of being in Vrndavana is already in the spiritual world, and when they die they are painlessly transported to the real Vrndavana in the spiritual sky. >

                                              I'm not sure what you mean by this, that people are smoking and watching porn in the spiritual world? That's....unusual. I'm a bit confused by this.

                                              <It was nice getting to know you Schirin and if you wish to continue our conversation just send me a message anytime. >

                                              And you the same!
  • Re: I'm so scared.

    Tue, January 8, 2008 - 5:14 AM
    Hey CK!

    Nice to see you're still out there and as lusty as ever.

    We miss you in the DCGWR tribe...are you sure you don't want to come back over for a good spanking?

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