Advertisement
and i've been feeling that way for a while. some girl tells me she thinks i'm interesting, or hot. we chat a bit for a few days and then she flakes, or disappears, or is generally impossible to speak to or see in real time. with all the flaking and putting off the days add up to weeks and the weeks stack into months.
i say "hey, when can we meet? this is what my schedule looks like." "hey, if we can't meet this week, or this month, why don't we talk on the phone meanwhile? get to know each other that way? here's my number." silence, then maybe i'll get the odd anemic email apologizing for the listless effort at communication. usually in response to my poking them and saying, "are you alive?"
what happens after my efforts? after my checking in and offering openings repeatedly? a whole lot of nothing. no calls, no dates, no cafes, no pubs, no dancing, no dining, and deffinitely NO NOOKIE!
what the fucking hell is going on? i swear women always bitch about never being able to meet women, and after more than a few experiences like this i can't see why no one has explained, "you have to get off your damned ass if you want to meet someone! a repetitive pattern of impersonal notes and long silences and a refusal to meet the other person halfway might explain your difficulty getting dates."
which takes me to my next question. obviously i am doing something wrong. should i be more pushy? take a page out of the guy play book and be on a woman until she finally gives in? sometimes i do get a phone number from a woman i find alluring. i call to say hi. i leave a message, and i hear nothing in return. is this the brush off? later via email she says she is still interested. wtf? you sure ain't acting like it.
i'm being too patient and too "understanding." i'm sick of this bullshit. i've been waiting patiently and giving space and being understanding to various women for about 3 years now! one girl i met at speed dating and we dated for a couple months. then she faded away. another girl, a one night stand. a year long dating hiatus while i figured out my relationship with my Consort. then.... more girls, more flaking. what am i doing wrong?
my first step, modifying my bio:
"However i do actually want to MEET women, talk on the phone, see you in person. we can email and IM for shits and giggles, but if we don't actually MEET within a reasonable window of time... i will not be happy, and i will lose interest. I hope you esteem me enough to treat me better than an afterthought. "
i say "hey, when can we meet? this is what my schedule looks like." "hey, if we can't meet this week, or this month, why don't we talk on the phone meanwhile? get to know each other that way? here's my number." silence, then maybe i'll get the odd anemic email apologizing for the listless effort at communication. usually in response to my poking them and saying, "are you alive?"
what happens after my efforts? after my checking in and offering openings repeatedly? a whole lot of nothing. no calls, no dates, no cafes, no pubs, no dancing, no dining, and deffinitely NO NOOKIE!
what the fucking hell is going on? i swear women always bitch about never being able to meet women, and after more than a few experiences like this i can't see why no one has explained, "you have to get off your damned ass if you want to meet someone! a repetitive pattern of impersonal notes and long silences and a refusal to meet the other person halfway might explain your difficulty getting dates."
which takes me to my next question. obviously i am doing something wrong. should i be more pushy? take a page out of the guy play book and be on a woman until she finally gives in? sometimes i do get a phone number from a woman i find alluring. i call to say hi. i leave a message, and i hear nothing in return. is this the brush off? later via email she says she is still interested. wtf? you sure ain't acting like it.
i'm being too patient and too "understanding." i'm sick of this bullshit. i've been waiting patiently and giving space and being understanding to various women for about 3 years now! one girl i met at speed dating and we dated for a couple months. then she faded away. another girl, a one night stand. a year long dating hiatus while i figured out my relationship with my Consort. then.... more girls, more flaking. what am i doing wrong?
my first step, modifying my bio:
"However i do actually want to MEET women, talk on the phone, see you in person. we can email and IM for shits and giggles, but if we don't actually MEET within a reasonable window of time... i will not be happy, and i will lose interest. I hope you esteem me enough to treat me better than an afterthought. "
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 2:17 AMI'll tell you something---women can be worse than men!
Sorry to hear you are having a hard time----good luck,
~Jodie~
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 7:33 AMflakes are lame no matter what gender they are. It does seem as if women can have the pro title for flaking though. I don't have a lot of experience in this myself since I haven't really had much luck in even having girls answer any of my emails responding to their ads but from some other women I know they can be flakey. My boyfriend recently had answered a personal ad for this woman (we're poly) and she seemed interested in meeting but then totally flaked. When he finally called her to say what's up, she then told him she had found a guy she was interested in and was pursuing that. It would have been nice for her to tell him rather than just leaving him hang, right?!
I don't have much solid advice for you, M, other than to say keep at it and sooner or later you'll find that non-flakey girl that does want to hang out and get to know you. Good luck :-)
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 1:51 PMM...
I hear ya, hon...that's always the trouble with being a woman dating women...we're ALL socialized by this culture to be passive, receptive...to BE approached and called and asked rather than to be doing any of these.
So, like...you meet a grrl...you talk to her...and you expect a certain degree of reciprocity—that she'll call/IM/make plans with you since you've called/IMed/made plans with her—but noooooooo.
And don't get me started on how, if you ARE more assertive or forward, but just aren't what the grrl in question wants, odds are she'll see you in a negative light just for trying.
And, oh yes, silence is NOT a valid communication method. If you want to show disinterest, just bloody well SHOW it instead of creating a null signal.
Nothing's gonna resolve this among lez/bi women except for women in general (and not just a frustrated few of us) taking responsibility for BOTH sides of the "dating equation", as well as for learning how to say "no", "not now", or "not interested" instead of just evaporating like the morning dew. Unfortunately, in a heterocentric society with default gender roles being what they are, this is unlikely to happen on a broad, societal level anytime soon.
All you can do is just look for the few that DO give back as much as they get from you.
*big hugs* -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 3:07 PMgoddamned female socialization!!
what cracks me up in the hysterically unhealthy way is that women seem to bitch and moan about how men are "so inconsiderate" and "don't know how to treat a lady!!" it seems to me that the majority of these passive penelopes need a beginner's course in dating etiquette themselves!
ANSWER ME when i leave you a message. otherwise i feel like some idiot stalker leaving scratches on a cave wall.
tell me AHEAD OF TIME EXACTLY WHEN you want to meet. I actually have a life and a primary. i can't hang on your every email to learn what you mean by "early afternoon" and i'm not going to check it on a saturday night. by then it is TOO LATE to set plans for the following day! which leads me to....
CALL ME when i give you my number. it is a much more expedient way of making plans and checking out someone's sense of humor and personality.
garsh, i've been keeping this in for so long my frustration is surprising me. i've been too mellow and laid back outwardly, which is probably another reason women think they can treat me this way. "oh she doesn't really care."
one thing i have learned thru my work in education is people don't actually value anything unless there are consequences for taking advantage of a good thing. i should stop letting people exploit my patience. -
-
Unsu...
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 5:09 PMI've noticed too...that with younger women it's a bigger problem...
Lesbians that are younger than 30...maybe I'm generalizing (I am...) tend to be flakier too...
But I'm someone that tends to be prompt if I say I'm gonna be someplace at 8:00 PM, I'll be there at that time.... -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 10:22 PMBeing on time can tell a lot about a person. It shows whether the person is someone who really cares about meeting the other person. I try to always be ontime, sometimes even early. If I run into a bunch of traffic or some other reason for being late I'll try to contact the person I'm meeting to let them know. I try to be courteous because I appreciate when someone does the same for me. -
-
Unsu...
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 11:30 PMOMG!!! Ive run into this exact same problem. It totally sux. One time, a girl and I were talking for 3 months.... flirting, wanting to hook up. And during this time... she literally stood me up 4 times. Always had some sort of an excuse as to why she didn't come, or even give me a call on my cell to let me know she couldn't make it. She was a complete flake. Ive run into so many flakes.... she was the most extreme case that i ran into though.... Im at a complete frustrated point just like you are. Im so tired of putting all this effort into everything... thinking its going great, and then she chickens out completely. -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Mon, January 9, 2006 - 3:12 PMCan't imagine ANYONE flaking on you, Jenni! *hugs*
I mean...just LOOK at you! >:} -
-
Unsu...
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Wed, January 11, 2006 - 11:03 AMahh Sonya... thank you so much. (man, now do i feel like a complete dork for not checking in here for a few days) *hugs* right back to you!!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Sat, January 7, 2006 - 12:05 AMThe problem is reality vs fantasy. When faced with reality, a lot of women have a hard time accepting who they are and what they want. I have had women use their man as an excuse to be with me, coz it would be weird to them somehow to take responsibility for their desires. The problem is that through maturity comes consciousness (or at least, that's the way it's supposed to work...) but many women, esp. the ones in their 20's, and people in general out there just aren't yet comfy in their own skin.
My last thought is that womn are afraid of EXPECTATIONS. They don't know what you expect from them, or what they expect from you often times. I think a thorough discussion of expectations from the get-go is the solution. I now go into these things with the knowledge that it most likely will end badly, and now I want to start asking them, how can we work things things out so this won't end badly? I like you, and I want us to be able to enrich each other's lives instead of cause damage. You can tell if someone really intends on dumping you quickly if that directness makes them squirm. -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Sat, January 7, 2006 - 9:36 AM"My last thought is that womn are afraid of EXPECTATIONS. They don't know what you expect from them, or what they expect from you often times."
The best thing to do is to NOT have any expectations. When you go into something new without having expectations then you don't have much chance to be disappointed. If you expect someone to act a certain way and they don't then you will be disappointed.
But you are very correct Schirin in saying you need to communicate what you want from eachother. When you exchange emails and decide that you want to have a phone conversation with this person then let that be very clear to the other person. If you want to eventually meet in person then state that clearly as well. But if the other person seems to be communicating well and then flakes on the meeting part then that is their deal. We shouldn't take it too personally because they are obviously dealing with some issues that they can only know. We have no idea what's going on in their heads.
Expectations lead to disappointment. I am not saying I never have expectations myself but I have found that when I do have them and they aren't met then I try not to take it personally. It's a huge task to overcome this, for sure! -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Sat, January 7, 2006 - 5:58 PMI agree totally. Personally I am usually up front one I tell people that I am not into the "longterm internet chat" thing, meaning I usually e-mail a few times and then meet. What's the sense of getting to know someone who only hides within the lines of an e-mail. I also put up the expectation that i am only meeting them to get to know someone who I think is cool and can hang out. Friendship for me has led to alot of really good contacts and nookie. I think neither of us are as nervous about "expectations" of a date. If they bail on my the first time usually the next invite is a group outing that way if I"m left high and dry in the cold a second time I've got other people to hang out with so I'm just not sitting there. Well that's my way of going about it.
-
-
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Tue, January 24, 2006 - 9:36 PMI was under the impression that both men and women are similarly flakey out here on the west coast. -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 12:53 PMIt's true that there's a higher cultural "flake factor" out here, but it's gravely compounded by the flake factor of people met on the internet. The latter seems pretty universal regardless of geography from my travels online...people are just emboldened by the disembodied medium until it comes time to "put up or shut up", alas. -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 8:53 AMI've seen a higher flake factor with woman than men too. I'm with you MG and Sonya, I think a *lot* of it has to do with socialization factors, and it drives me to distraction, and not in a good way.
Most women I've met have wanted me to chase them the way a man would. Hello! Not a man. And I got the same ridiculous socialization as a young girl that they did, so I'm (happily) breaking out of the "traditional" role to try and get to know them. Aargh.
All I'm saying is there *are* non flaky womenfolk out there, I just think we're harder to find. (although I suspect there's a disproportionally higher number of us chatting on this here tribe....)
;) Ms.K -
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 2:02 PM> All I'm saying is there *are* non flaky womenfolk out there, I just think we're harder to find.
> (although I suspect there's a disproportionally higher number of us chatting on this here tribe....)
That IS the truth...I managed to meet MG, actually, and while the "sparks" weren't there, we enjoyed each other's company very much. :-)
The trick is certainly finding the non-flakes. If only there were some online "flake-o-meter" that actually worked and didn't reply on the often fickle feedback of others! -
-
Flake-o-meter??
Sun, January 29, 2006 - 11:15 AMYeah, I've often thought the same thing- would be nice if you could see someone's flake out statistics before deciding to write/date/etc them. I haven't figured out how you miniimize the subjectivity bias, but I'd like to know if someone got a green, yellow, or red light for honesty, integrity, and general basic human kindness factors as I approached them or vice versa. Now *that* would be some good effective social networking! :) :)
-
Re: FRUSTRATED with flakes
Sun, January 29, 2006 - 8:47 PMspeaking of flake-o-meter, sonya i CALLED you and you didn't call me back! <pout>.
having just gotten back from my annual trip to cabo paradise, i have found myself more averse to internet and chat contact and craving at least phone or hangout contact. the main hurdle to hangout time with folks is getting out of routine. i have a routine, that while not exciting (obviously, since i am bitching about lack of human contact) requires little planning, thought, or effort. my social default setting has me at my consort's house all weekend (fri-sun), him at my house on wednesdays, and the rest of the week i can easily fill up with small projects at home or other attempts at being "productive:" attending radical women meetings, going to therapy, knitting, reading, cooking, cuddling my cat.
all this has made me conclude that i need to do more of the productive stuff in the mornings, save my evenings for hanging with interesting folks, and break out of my weekend inertia despite how much i adore my consort.
it's tough tho. i feel like i have been going through one transition or another for the past year(s). routine is comforting in the face of change. however all it really takes is commitment and mindfullness. heh, both things are easier said than done, but then, what isn't?
-
-
-
-
